Introduction: Welcome to the Entrepreneuring Show, where we strive to provide insights and stories for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs, where innovation meets inspiration, led by veteran entrepreneur and tech founder. Here’s your host, Jill Button.
Jill Button: All right, we are live and I am your host, Jill Button of the Entrepreneuring Show. Today’s episode is brought to you by ThryvX HR and Recruiting, providing end to end resource management solutions, ensuring comprehensive organizational success. My guest today is Corette Miller, the founder and CEO.
Corette. Has over 25 years of experience as a human resources professional to large and to small organizations throughout Canada, the U S and the UK. Correct. Passion is to educate and partner with employers and business owners, supporting them with a range of human resources expertise. She has a love for public speaking and has been both a guest and a paid speaker on numerous panels.
workshops and conferences on topics such as Employee Standards Act and cannabis within the workplace. Her fresh practical approach educates businesses owners on how to protect themselves from the turbulent early years as they grow and adapt to the market around them. Welcome to the show. Correct.
Corette: Oh, thank you, Jill. Hi, everyone. It’s really nice to be here. So I’m looking forward to our conversation today.
Jill Button: As am I. So this feels a little familiar to me. You and I hosted a podcast, uh, several years ago. And while we didn’t have video, um, there was great chemistry between us. And, uh, I’m so happy to have you back on the show and I’m looking forward to you sharing your journey with our audience.
You and I have actually known each other for quite a while. And in fact, I’m a loyal customer of ThryvX HR and recruiting. Um, I’ve relied upon you to keep me out of hot water many times. And you’ve also helped me in recruiting talent. In fact, our producer Mujneen is, uh, a successful, um, hire. That I got through you.
Um, I can’t wait for you to share some of the stories, um, with our listeners. But before I begin, I just want to remind our listeners to, if you have a question for crap, please post them in the comment section on YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and we will get to them throughout the show. So why don’t we start off with, tell us about your journey.
Corette: I know I, uh, I say in my bio over 25 years, HR experience, because I don’t like to give away my age, but, um, I’ve actually, it’s like 32 years this year. I started my very first job in human resources. Um, so it has been literally my life, um, career and my life commitment. And here I am 32 years later and still loving it as much as I did before.
After so many years in the corporate world, um, you know, many know I worked at Lavalife for eight years. I went in as a temp and came out eight years later as a manager. But that was my baby and that was the opportunity to really, really grow. Going in as an administrator, and I did every position, uh, that you can do within the human resources team.
So, and it was between corporate office and call centers and across Canada and across U. S. So, it was a, the fast track learning, uh, that an HR professional could do. Yeah, go into a call center, you will get fast tracked, uh, and the learning on the employee relations side. Um, Lava Life was acquired, unfortunately.
So two years later, uh, I departed, uh, as part of the whole acquisition packages moved on then to Dundee realty, uh, commercial industrial, uh, real state. Fun, not as sexy as LabLife was as a product. Uh, but here we go again. Uh, they were acquired and, um, 67 percent of the company was purchased. And, um, so at that point in time, I decided that, and especially that year, I worked for many hours and many over the summer on it and doing and completing the project management of that acquisition.
So I decided that my next step was to go on my own. So everyone goes, what’s the plan? Correct. And I’m like, I’m going to work for myself. They’re like, what’s your business plan? I’m going to work for myself. And they’re like, what’s the budget? And I’m like, well, whatever’s in the bank account. And my favorite card, Zeller’s credit card at the time.
Kelly. Yeah. So I love Zeller’s. Um, and so that’s what happened. And that happened in October of 2007. And my very first, um, contract that I signed and, uh, opportunity was to be the project manager for an acquisition. So when they said to me in the interview, in the conversation, you know, what do you know about acquisitions?
I’m like, let me tell you what I know about acquisitions. So, and, but it was really great. This one was exciting because there was a technology company located here in Toronto and buying in the U S and they had done multiple acquisitions and in house HR team just could not handle. Another project. So they brought me in to manage that whole project.
Um, and again, exciting cause you’re dealing with us and us benefits in Canada and payroll and it’s significantly different. Um, more than some people might realize cause we’re sister countries. So that was my very first, um, worked with them. Lovely. Got to travel numerous times in a lot of different other opportunities.
I worked with Chipotle, uh, restaurants, Great burritos. Anyways. Um, so I tracked their food, uh, but, uh, worked with them and helped them open up their very first international restaurant, which is the location on Dundas Square. That was great. Great experience working with them. Awesome organization and great values, um, uh, as a company overall and continued from there and worked with the Ministry of Health and long term care.
Big H. R. A. I. S. Technology project. Very exciting working in the public eyes, which was different for me versus coming, always being in the private world. Um, and they do operate differently. Obviously, spending Uh, citizens numbers, uh, citizens, sorry, um, funds, you, you do operate a little bit differently. Uh, but that was a great learning opportunity.
The project was CCIM and it was really sad when I departed five years. That’s when I switched the direction of the company ThryvX Focus now, which is being your HR team. So we’re a virtual team. We can be 100 percent virtual. We can be on site. We can be half and half, a hybrid. And really what I pride ourselves in to be is that we’re very customizable.
Staff sometimes don’t like that because there’s like every client is different, but our, that’s the point is every client is different. And as an organization, the minute you start hiring staff from one up, you start having requirements and compliance requirements. And I’m always an advocate that the first thing I want to do is to ensure that you’re protected.
So we really work as to be your partner. I’m not coming in and saying, you should do this and you should do that. I’m coming in and saying, here’s what’s required. How can we get you to the point of being compliant? And you know, what roadmap do we have to put in place to get, get you to that? So, and then during the time when we’re doing those discoveries, we end up doing discovery that, Hey, by the way, the, you are supposed to pay vacation, pay on commission payouts.
This is a recent discovery and the client was quite surprised. So there’s just little things like that and that’s under the Employment Standards Act. Because you as a business owner are busy building your business, you’ve invested a lot of time, you’ve invested, um, into your resources and you know, you want to grow and scale up.
But you’re not going to sit there and know the ins and outs and the each point of what’s required on an employment standards act for, you know, vacation pay. Um, and that’s so easy for organizations then to get themselves in hot water really quickly. Um, that’s, and I heard so many stories and that’s why I was like, we really should, like, this is, this is, I shouldn’t leave this corporate world to do this.
One, because I’ve worked so hard. I might as well do if I’m gonna work that hard, do it for myself. But two, I wanted to be there and say, you don’t need to be an organization of 300 500 1000 to have a designated HR professional that there is to support you and help you guide you through.
Jill Button: So, so in terms of your, the catalyst to be an entrepreneur, was it that you were tired of, you know, being acquired, not being able to control your own destiny in your career?
Would you say that that was a major catalyst? Like what was the thing that like the last straw that kind of said, I’m done now?
Corette: Yeah, you know, so when, you know, there’s different types of environments, right? And cultures. So in Lava Life, when I worked at Lava Life, I really never thought about being an entrepreneur.
Um, my husband and I at the time did, um, open up a sports bar. Uh, but it was more of his, you know, that was his journey. And I, it was exciting. Yeah. Being a business owner and being part of that. And of course, bringing in my background and corporate background, I could help him, you know, be successful in that age.
It was when I moved, got involved in the other, um, environments where I was like, Oh, this is, this is not, it’s not fun. It’s not, it’s not a constant change. And I love constant change. Um, and I really just felt in that industry. There was kind of like a little bit of a ceiling there. Um, I actually had a comment come to me at one point in time and say, we just thought you were going to be the pretty one who sat in the corner and pushed the paperwork.
Um, I’m like, I really need to coach you on your interviewing. Because I’m like, if anyone knows me, that’s not me at all, right? I’m not going to just sit in the corner. And so receiving comments like that throughout my tenure and my experiences and interactions, um, throughout networks, I was like, this is, this is not for me.
Um, I want to be. And I remember, uh, early in my career at one point in time, too, I had a director come to me and said, if I didn’t learn how to be political, um, and play that game internally that I would never grow the corporate ladder. And I, my response was, Then I don’t want to be part of that corporation.
I am who I am. I am committed. I’m committed to companies being successful. I’m committed to ensuring that I can do the best that I can that partner with you and help you grow. But I’m not here to sugarcoat. And play a political game and, you know, and see who can cheat on others or whatever to seats to get that increase or to grow.
I mean, I just, I want to be the best I can. So you can be the best you can really, that really was helped me moved into being an entrepreneur. It was never, I don’t think it might’ve been in my blood because I think I’ve shared this story with you before growing up in Newfoundland when I was 13, we were in a community that had, you know, the largest fish plant on the island from Newfoundland.
And I was like, I didn’t want to work in the fish plant. So I opened up my own daycare. I mean, we had a farm of 10 acres, so it was easy. Okay, kids, we’re gonna. Weed the garden today. We’re going to feed the pig. And so it was easy to entertain them. So I kind of really, maybe that’s what I, you know, started that when I was 13 and been working since I was 13.
So I guess there was a part of me that just didn’t realize I was actually an entrepreneur. Right, right.
Jill Button: For sure. So it sounds like culture really had a big impact, you know, the ability to actually build your own culture, not being satisfied within the culture. And certainly, um, You know, those, uh, misogynistic comments, um, certainly I, like, for me, sort of similar.
I got tired of working for people who, uh, expected me to, you know, play that Um, stereotypical role, right? So I’m going to get the coffee, I’m going to build the agenda.
That’s not me. And in my corporate environment, uh, or, or corporate career, I was called aggressive many times, and I kind of got sick of, you know, You know, this isn’t the culture that I want to be in.
I want to build my own culture. I want a culture where people are appreciated for what they can do and who they are. And it’s the whole person, not just, you know, what you can give me, it’s what we can build together. Um, and so you’ve been, you’ve been an entrepreneur for how long? Remind me.
Corette: I, uh, opened up my company October, 2007.
So we’re coming out to quite a long time. Yeah, for, for quite a while. So you’ve been an entrepreneur longer than you were in the corporate world.
Jill Button: Yes. Yeah. So for you, um, you have, you I’ve heard some great stories. So there’s a story in particular that I’d love for you to share. Um, it’s a, uh, particularly funny story about you and your adorable little dog, Bella, and some mayhem that she may have caused.
Do you know what story I’m talking about?
Corette: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little miss Bella. I’m not sure where she is, but you guys might hear her eventually. So, cause she does love to pop up onto the camera. Something that she learned throughout the pandemic. Uh, but when she was little in, in the advantage of being an untouched.
getting a new puppy is, um, you have a lot more freedom to spend time and at home to train that puppy. Cause I did try, uh, once years ago when I was working, you know, and you’re gone 14, 15 hours a day and it, it just didn’t work. So having a new puppy. So with, but with Bella when she’s small because she’s a small, she, so she’s tiny.
Um, I could carry her and bring her to many clients. As you know, she was in the first three months of age and she’d like to cuddle up and she went to one client and would just lie on their desk as the receptionist, you know, answer the calls and she became a mascot. Uh, so one day she was in the vehicle with me and I had a client call me and said, Hey, can you drop in?
I really need to get this done. Like, you know, is there any chance? And I said, I’m around the corner. Uh, but just so you know, I’ve got my puppy with me. She’s only, I think she was Three months old or something like that not she wasn’t there She was it than a first year and he said sure no problem bring her in and I’m like, okay So I ensured she did a little pee before we went into the office He’s got a nice little grass field there and and then I just brought her up and we had to do work So this client had just moved into this building Freshly designed renovated.
They gutted it all new furniture, you know, nice walls, paintings, and beautiful, nice new carpet. I think you know where I’m going with this. So the staff are having a grand time because she’s just whipping around. The floor and everybody’s chasing her. But if you know what it’s like when you have a puppy, he gets over a little bit of an accident.
So, um, and she, she pooped, she pooped all over the carpet and I was just like working with my client and it was a sensitive issue that I was working on. I was like, Oh my God. I got first thing I did was like, I just jumped and grabbed tissue, grabbed it, cleaned it and went to the ladies room and flushed it down the toilet and came back, you know, slightly embarrassed.
And of course he’s like, yeah. You know, correct. You could have made sure she did a job before she did before you came in. I’m like, I did. I took her to her field, but she’s just so excited running around with the staff and the staff chasing her and stuff like that. So I was like, I cleaned it all up. But you know, they had a, you know, a nice flowery scent in the office for a couple of hours, so they took it in good stride.
No harm, no foul. Yeah. Yeah. They didn’t, they didn’t get upset with it and stuff like that. But I just thought, Oh my goodness, like brand new carpet. It couldn’t have been before the office got renovated. It had to be like within the first couple of weeks of the office. Yeah. So Bella doesn’t come to client’s office very often anymore.
No. Not, not now.
Jill Button: Um, so, you know, being an entrepreneur, we know is incredibly hard. Um, I’d love to know like, what’s been the most challenging, uh, hairy, scary, like what, what, like people have this myth of what it is to be an entrepreneur. What is, uh, what’s one of the most challenging things that you’ve had to overcome as an entrepreneur?
Corette: Well, there’s a couple of things and I’ll start with that as an entrepreneur and a business owner You think you know everything and what’s scary is yeah is not knowing what you don’t know and and sometimes we hear we learn it in a hard way. Right? So that’s been a constant and still today, 17 years here I am later and still, you know, trying to run a business and scale a business and enjoying it.
But every day I learned something new because there’s constant changes out there. Different technology is being invited, um, and how you operate. So that to me is, and, uh, and I talked to clients about that. You don’t know what you don’t know. And that’s, I want you to know before you need to know it. It used to be one of my taglines, um, and I wish I, I, you know, I had taken on a business coach or, you know, read more books to kind of be, Oh, okay.
I need to be aware of this and that type of thing. So I’ve had some hard knocks. Um, um, not like no fines or anything like that, but just, you know, some hard learnings and, and maybe some not getting that bid because, you know, I didn’t put out that bid properly, or, you know, this kind of things. Um, so that would be, I say is that, but, uh, you know, always comes down to finances to bootstrapping, or do you go and get funding or investment?
Um, so. I chose the path of not to go out and ask to borrow money to, you know, do the bootstrapping and to fund, um, fund it myself. And that’s been probably the, one of the most stressful. Could I rewind and go back and maybe go back to the bank or, you know? Probably. Um, so, but yeah, that’s probably the most stressful and the stress of constant, like, where’s that, where’s that next client?
Where’s the getting the flow of a revenue stream coming in and not relying on one soul, one soul, or one big client as your revenue, like where you have that constantly going, don’t rely on that. So, you know, and I, and I, I learned that just by watching other companies. Um, experience that and other small businesses relying on just one major contract.
Jill Button: Yeah, for sure. That’s definitely a high risk. A lot of entrepreneurs, I think, sort of, um, share a similar experience that financial, um, uh, unpredictable, um, Cashflow is such a challenging, uh, and unexpected, uh, reality for entrepreneurs, you know, especially when there’s unforeseen circumstances that are beyond your control, like a pandemic, which for us was, you know, you and I are working together at that time and the pandemic had a massive negative impact on my consulting business.
Um, conversely, it actually had, you know, it had you see, you know, Uh, incredible increase in business. Um, would you say the pandemic was scary, uh, for you as well? Like, was that for you a standout time, um, in your entrepreneurial journey? The uncertainty, especially like, you know, working with other entrepreneurs, did you see other people who were, you know, Navigating the storm.
And, you know, as an HR professional, you know, did, were you called upon to kind of give them guidance, but yet at the same time, you’re experiencing this for the first time in your own. Like, what was that like?
Corette: Well, yeah, it was frightening, you know. Personally, I probably like, Oh my gosh, are we, are we walking into a real life walking dead scenario?
It was just such an unknown for all of us, you know, on just the virus side of it, nevermind the, you know, the closure of businesses. So in 2020 it was rough. Um, once we worked with our clients who are of course, you know, small to medium, medium sized companies, uh, and help them do their layoffs or shut down the company, um, Then we were like, well, there’s no business.
So we became, and it was the first time I think ever in my life, I had no emails coming into my inbox and it was so eerie and so scary. And I thought, here I am now, you know, You know, I was turning 50 that year and I thought I’m gonna lose everything I’ve ever worked for because I was an entrepreneur and I’m like, I’m not entitled to E.
I’m a business owner. So it wasn’t entitled to unemployment and I’ve got no revenue coming in and I still have a mortgage to pay. And, you know, it’s such a story that everybody and all of us can share. I will say I have to think, you know, the, the programs that did come out by the government, because it did, it did save me.
Um, so that was, that was a blessing in, uh, in disguise it, but also, as you said, it increased our business. Especially when we reopened late in 2022, we’re really good because it did bring awareness to some of those business owners that we do need, uh, an HR professional, help us navigate this. Um, and what was really good is that when something new came out and a new law or new requirement, It was easy for us on ThryvX to comprehend because we’re used to navigating through the Ministry of Labour’s requirements and subsection 12.
A124. We can find it quick and we can interpret it quick and we’re very comfortable with what the legal degerment is. So it was easy for us to get it really quick and understand it and relay it back to in a message that our clients would understand. Um, and so that’s, you know, brought up, brought us into the forefront again, uh, clients reaching out and working with us.
Jill Button: So in a, in a way you are, um, you know, acting as that, uh, that guide through incredibly stormy waters for people who like you have never been through a pandemic before, but yet you’re there providing them that, Calm guidance, um, and helping to navigate. It was scary. It was scary for all of us. I know for sure.
Um, now let’s, let’s talk about what’s been the most rewarding thing for you as an HR professional, I imagine that there’s many things that for you, um, you would say is, you know, rewarding, but is there something that has stood out for you? It’s kind of like. That was my best day. Like I did this or this happened.
Is there anything that stands out for you in terms of like the most rewarding?
Corette: Yeah, well, first I’m going to clear up the myth that people have about being entrepreneurs that were millionaires because we’re not. We just we don’t have this abundance of money just floating around. Um, but what’s there?
There was a few things rewarding and money is Um, a good friend actually had, we had a conversation about three or four months ago and she, she made me realize that do you not understand that you designed your life, you designed your life, not some CEO of, you know, a multimillion dollar company designing your life and dictating your life on what you do on a day to day basis.
You’ve designed it. And, uh, and a lot of the millennial and other generations are starting to, you know, Focus on that as well. No, that is true. And that’s, that’s, what’s been rewarding as I’ve chosen, you know, many years ago, I’m not going to work in an environment that yells at me. I’m not going to work at an environment that says, Oh, you’re the pretty girl sticking the, you know, paperwork and do in the corner and do the paperwork.
I’m, I’m going to create an environment and be an entrepreneur that creates some works for me and my lifestyle. And I can work as hard as I want, or I can take a day off and I’m not. I’m going to have to justify taking my day off. Um, you know, or going through, you know, I had a Maybe a vertical, uh, you know, first, you know, deal with that on time.
So when you’re working for another organization, sometimes you just got to deal with it and go into work. We’re being an entrepreneur and doing your own things. You can balance that out. Um, and that’s what I find is most rewarding of an entrepreneur and what’s rewarding for me and my company is the, the experience.
We work with so many different organizations in all different industries, from construction to typical corporate office with the healthcare. So your local rehab, your eye doctors or chiropractors, we have fitness centers. We have other consulting companies. We have a small accounting firms. So it’s really rewarding that all of these different organizations come to us for our advice and it’s rewarding when I get emails like I did this week saying They are new client.
They never thought they need HR when we signed with us. They’re like, ah, we’re never gonna have to use you We’ll probably talk to you a couple of times a year And of course then something happens and we’re heavily involved and she sent an email said I really Honestly do not know what I would do without you and that makes me feel good That makes me go, it’s always been my passion.
I’ve always mentored. Um, I’ve mentored graduating HR professionals. Uh, when I went through HARP, uh, I mentioned, I love public speaking because I love to share my experiences and my knowledge. And I, Love it when a client comes back and it’s very rewarding to me when a client or the employees of clients and of the Company come back and go I’m so glad you’re here with us I’m so glad 5x is our HR team don’t know what you would want to do without us because then I know I’m making a Difference for you and that’s what’s and that’s what’s important is that we’re making a difference and helping improve the workplace
Jill Button: Yes, it’s, it’s very common that I hear that with the guests that I’ve interviewed.
It reminded me of, um, we had a guest, David Trinitsky from Armour Cyber Security on, and your words, um, are almost exactly mirroring what he said in terms of, you know, um, You know, organizations think that they never, they don’t need you, that they’re never going to use you until something happens and then they realize that they do need you.
And then the ability to actually help somebody, whether it’s protect them from a cyber threat or from you or for you, you know, help them navigate how to, uh, which we’re going to get into after the break, you know, how to make sure that you’re actually complying with human rights and that you don’t get in trouble because, you know, you’re dealing with People and human, like people, lives, humans.
So it’s so important, the work that you do. Um, so I’m going to, I’m going to take a quick break and then when we get back, we’re going to dive into some of those, uh, insights that I’d love for the audience to hear, but About, uh, how to balance, you know, business priorities and growth with human rights and all of the legislation, health and safety, um, that we all need to know, but we don’t know which is why we need you.
So we’re going to take a quick break and we will be back.
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Jill Button: All right, we are back with corrette miller from ThryvX HR and Recruiting.
So, Corette, we’re going to dive into some and share some of your knowledge and experience. So, what are the things that, um, businesses need to understand and know while they’re growing to make sure that they are complying with human rights, health and safety, etc.?
Corette: Yeah. So, I always say there’s about three buckets.
Um, I name it about, uh, HR, the essentials. There’s, as I mentioned, there’s the mandatory, the compliance requirements and the legislations. And then, of course, in organizations, once we get there, there’s the nice to haves, the funds, the rewards, and the recognition programs, which we do get to get involved with.
We’re not always just the bad guys, so making sure that you’re compliant. But the three are, are the human rights. Um, and then there’s the Occupational Health and Safety Act, and then there’s the ESA, and the Occupational Health and Safety Act, and the ESA, which is the Employment Standards Act, not the Electrical, um, uh, Association, and they follow under the Ministry of Labour.
So overall, throughout Canada, we do have federal regulations for health and safety and human rights, and then each province adapts. and has to be at, at least at the minimum of the federal requirements. And they can offer a greater benefit, but they can’t be less than what the federal government provides.
They all have their own compliance, regular requirements. And, um, these are the three biggest risks for organizations by not knowing it. So where we come in, because this is my passion and it has been for 32 years, I, we, you, we know them inside and out, so we’ll work with you to ensure that you’ve minimized that risk.
So let’s just talk about the, the ESA, the Employment Standards Act that has the guidance of what you need to know, um, to provide the minimum to employees. So what, you know, you have to talk about their pay. Their hours of work, vacation pay, um, statutory holiday pay, termination notice, severance notice, um, all those little type of nuances about being an employee, um, and that’s for organizations that have employees on payroll.
So if you have contractors and independent contractors, the EASA, you don’t really have to worry about if you have the proper contract in place, because that is key to, uh, under side of that, regardless of your type of environment, you have the human rights code and occupational health and safety. So they don’t define the difference between workers.
They don’t define a contract worker, a part time worker, a full time worker on salary per hourly. They’re just a worker. They’re on site with you or you’re sending them to another site. So a subcontracting site, they’re a worker for you and you’re paying them for a service. So therefore you have occupational health and safety, uh, legislation and requirements.
A lot of people when they think health and safety, they’re like, Oh, we’re not 20 people. So we don’t have any requirements. That’s a big myth. Um, because that, that is actually just a requirement to have a health and safety committee. Not necessarily. I don’t have to follow any of the other regulations.
Depends if do you have that one rep or do you have to have a committee? Um, the number defining that is 20. Outside of that, you have a lot of training. You have health and safety awareness training that every organization, regardless of size. In ontario has to complete that training. I still walk in today and that was believe 2014 16 Roll out There’s so many organizations I walk in today that don’t have that training done and that’s an easy 500 to 1, 000 fine.
Just right there. Right? So another simple, uh, Jill is you have posters that are required to be up in, in your organization. There’s three or four different posters. If they’re not up on an online for a virtual organizations, an online board or physical domain, Again, there’s 500 boom instantly. So there’s little, little things like that as an organization where you’re trying to balance and understand and grow your business.
Well, we just come in and in a quick soup can audit and say, you need this and this and this, and then you’ll be compliant on that side.
Jill Button: So let’s talk about. Cause it’s a really challenging thing to navigate what you’re talking about. Right? So a lot of entrepreneurs, they have no idea that as soon as they hire one person, there’s all these obligations and things that they need to comply with.
But I think a lot of people, like since the pandemic, a lot of people are virtual and they don’t know what they’re doing. They’re like, Oh, they’re working from home. It’s fine. So it’s a different, there’s, there’s more complexity, right? So what you just said in terms of, you know, the, the posters that need to be up, the, the training that needs to be done that applies to people who are virtual as well.
Corette: Yes. Yeah. Um, I’m actually developing a course right now, um, around, uh, hybrid workplace excellence and, and, and helping our organizations understand that. So here’s a little her news. So this is a flash that almost nobody understands or realizes this, that, um, our body, WSIB, so our Workplace Safety Insurance Board, is now approving ergonomic claims for individuals who worked from home throughout the pandemic without a proper office space.
So we know many people who sat at the kitchen counter, you know, for anywhere from three months to two years. Um, at their kitchen counter dining room table who are now having ergonomic, um, issues and WSIB is, is approving them as workplace, uh, claims because even though you are working from home and either the organization has instructed you to work from home or you’ve requested to work from home or in a hybrid place is still the employer’s accountability to ensure that you have a proper setup at home.
So I’m now coaching and we’re coaching organizations that say if an employee is requesting to work from home, then you have a right and should ensure that they have a designated workspace that is not on the kitchen counter and it’s not necessarily be a home office like I have set up. But it has to be a designated workspace and proper ergonomic setup for safety and privacy and privacy secured in your computer.
That’s a whole nother topic that I can talk about, but just on that alone. So, um, so you have that and then you have, um, you know, there’s different policies to put in place and with the virtual. The technology is changed dramatically throughout the pandemic and how you can utilize the technology. You can have people click on and off to show they’re on break, they’re signed off and signed off for lunch, and that’s imperative around if a WSIB is going to approve a claim or not.
So. And have proper policies and the proper procedures in place and the employees have to follow it. So there is a whole gamut around the best practices for that. But not just best practices, the policies that you have to have in place with employees under the Human Rights Code, even virtual. And this is before even majority of us went to a hybrid workplace.
Regardless of your online, online. or not online in person, you still have a right not to be bullied, and you still have a right not to be harassed, and you still have a right not to be sexually harassed, or, you know, type of thing, um, which can easily happen online. Um, people lose guard, um, they get comfortable, as we do in person.
And we cross that line. There’s an invisible line at all times, right? We create relationships. Of course, we’re going to create relationships. We work with our co workers and our peers, probably more than we see some of our family at times. So we create that relationship of chest and joking and, you know, um, but that, that one line, that invisible line gets crossed.
And when it gets crossed, the employer is now accountable. So they have to ensure that there’s proper training in place. And there’s training around those topics under the Occupational Health and Safety Act and under the Human Rights Code. We combine it, we call it respectful workplace, et cetera, et cetera.
And then we’re good, but we do it for both. So in under the Human Rights Code is to me is always the biggest risk, uh, for any employers is very clear. Um, if there’s about 17 prohibited, um, uh, areas right now in, you know, the typical age, sex, gender, you know, that type of thing, ethnic place of origin, um, that, so in an, it continues to develop and change over the years.
But this is really a high risk for organizations by not understanding what it means, um, and understanding the human rights code and how to protect themselves from it. And it can come down to simple little questions when you’re in an interview. Um, so, you know, a good example of the, if you want to combine, uh, marital status and gender.
And so you’re interviewing a single woman who has a child, um, And then you ask them, well, do you have children? Yes. One first question. Never ever ask, do you married a single? Oh, I’m doing some recently suffered. Never. Okay. And then you start asking the question, well, how are you going to, you know, who’s going to manage about daycare, that type of thing.
Do you just breach two points of the human rights code by asking those questions? Cause as an employer, really, it does not matter to you. And it makes no difference if a person is married, divorced, single, uh, If they have children or not children, if they’re newly married and plan to have children or not to have children.
So, and that’s a typical one, but there’s many other ways that you can breach the human rights code in simplistic questions. Um, in interviewing, you make a note on the resumes, right? We have so many interviews, so many conversations. It can be really hard to remember who we’re talking about, but interviewing smart and having a proper process and planning will help you prevent.
doing such things as, oh, uh, met with a black female wearing the red sweater. Then you write that on your interview notes, which is by law, you’re supposed to keep them for seven years. Nobody ever does, but it’s supposed to keep for seven years. And there you go. You just like, you didn’t hire that person, that individual.
You’ve now potentially got a human rights claim on you because you’re like, Well, you just wrote down female and black, that’s why you didn’t hire me. Right? Mm-Hmm. . Or, or you can write down and say, you know, old white man . Right? The things that I’ve witnessed and, and had, uh, you know, and, and co. I’m like, no, no, no.
Don’t, don’t write that. Don’t make those comments like judged and say, you know, uh, demonstrated. Excellence and the skill demonstrate didn’t demonstrate leadership. Those are the notes that you need to make, not the notes around gender, ethnic background, you know, marital status, kids, family status. You don’t make those type of comments.
So, and that’s where. I just need a body in the seat correct is what I get all the time. I’m like, I get it, but we want to make the right hire. So, and we want to, so setting up your process to avoid human rights claims as well, but there’s so many ways, Jill, like, you know, so can I tell a quick story around, you know, harass and harassment claims that could be avoided?
And, you know, it was a conversation among a group of individuals. One individual walked by, and it was in the courtyard of the organization’s property building. And the individual walking by did not like the conversation that was happening around the group, within the group. And, you know, the person took it as a racist comment, went in and made a complaint to the office manager, no human resources in the organization.
Um, and her response was, eh, what do you want me to do about it? You know, but this, let’s just talk to the owner of the business. So we went to the, they went to the owner of the business and he put in a complaint and the owner was, Ready to retire, had an offer was selling his organization that had for less to say 45 years offer on the table, doesn’t want to deal, never had want to deal with this, basically turned him and said, just suck it up.
That comment, just suck it up and not done anything to took that individual to the Human Rights Commission and put in a complaint and put in a complaint for 75, 000 because there’s no chart like there is in the ESA. There’s no chart. It’s up to individuals. So now that organization not only has to bring in, you know, ourselves, like we went in to help them, there’s now an immense amount of legal fees to fight the human rights claim.
And they lost the sale of their company because they have to disclose. When you’re going your full disclosure, you have to disclose. Now you have a human rights claim, um, and a legal claim. Um, and that was the first time in my career I had to tell a business owner that he couldn’t come to work on his own site.
That was probably one of the most uncomfortable conversations I’ve ever had is to tell this gentleman who’s had a business for 45 years that you need to stay at home. Why we complete this investigation. So, um, well, good enough is that they did. We’re like, okay, come in and get us. like fix us. Um, there were, there was a settlement with the employee overall between all the costs for saying to suck it, you know, to suck it up cost the organization close to 60, 000.
Jill Button: Wow. So it’s a, it’s incredible how not knowing and even without the intent can still really like, just not having the knowledge, even someone in, you know, with 45 years of experience running a business, having an HR professional who understands, who knows, you know, the codes, um, the requirements, um, Proactively can help avoid like, I know you do investigations.
So the example you’re talking about is, you know, being brought in after the fact to try to solve an issue that has been raised, which is, I know a good portion, a good portion of your business, but the proactiveness of actually having an HR professional, like you said, you’ve got training that’s available on procure hub, by the way.
Um, I would love to have your new course, um, on ProcureHub as well, you know, and you also offer your services, um, to be there as an HR expert, to provide the guidance to entrepreneurs and to businesses to keep them out of hot water and not have to, you know, incur these massive fines.
Corette: Yep. Well, we, uh, we offer kind of.
We call it an open door policy and external open door policy, typically known as whistleblower policy. We offer that to clients and they just have that up and they have posters now on their walls. You know, if you want to talk to somebody outside of our organization, you know, not your manager, not the executive, not the VP, et cetera.
Um, then the open door policy is, is to come to us. And then we can handle that for organizations as well. So there’s different ways that we can, and coming in and being proactive is, is so it’s, if you want to talk to a bit, what’s one of the most frustrating things for me and my business is getting business owners to be a little bit more proactive, right?
current experience client to save 500. They terminated a part time staff member who only worked 20, 25 hours a week and only employed for a 10, uh, one year, 10 year, they processed the departure of the organization without, you know, working with us. They got a demand letter from a lawyer. If anybody has gone through this, they’ll know what that is, but it’s basically she’s suing and she’s asking for 15 weeks.
It’s, you know, and I just said, this is unfortunate that we’re in this situation. We’re not going to end up paying or they’re not, sorry, not me, but they’re not going to end up paying that 15 weeks. We’ll be able to negotiate it down, but to save a few hundred dollars and then consulting fee, you’re now.
You know, at, you know, this kind of money. So those are the things where I’m just like, Oh, I guess this is really frustrating. I mean, obviously we’re support and they’re just like, oops. Okay. Yeah. You know what? We’re going to, we’ll never do anything without you again.
Jill Button: Awesome. So I can’t believe the time has flown by.
We could probably just keep going. Um, Corette, thank you so much for joining me here today. It’s been amazing to have you on the show, to talk to you, to catch up. Um, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you. It’s been wonderful. Awesome. Well, that’s it for our show today. If you’d like more information about.
Corette’s services. You can sign up to be a member of the procure hub community. You can find us at procure hub. ca and you can check out correct services. If you’d like more information about the entrepreneuring show, you have an idea for the show, or you want to be a guest on the show, contact us. You can check us out at theentrepreneurshow. com or you can send us an email to info at procurepro. ca until next time entrepreneurs just keep swimming.